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 Runny nose 
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Joined: Fri Aug 11, 2006 1:46 pm
Posts: 4811
Location: SF Bay Area (Northern CA)
Post 
This is not a symptom of LBD exclusively. It's a common symptom in PD and atypical parkinsonism disorders, of which LBD is one.


Sat Jul 26, 2008 10:04 pm
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Joined: Thu Jan 29, 2009 10:15 pm
Posts: 4
Post runny nose and drooling
I'm new and have been jumping from forum to forum so excited to finally have such a wealth of information.

My mom experienced periods of runny nose too and sometimes excessive drooling. I had no idea this could be related to Lewy Body!

These episodes came and went. Her caregiver and I don't have any answers except keep tissues nearby but sometimes she takes and compulsively shreds them. She is either in or very near the end stage of this disease and is often unaware that there is a tissue in her hand. She often uses the blanket or the nearby hospital curtin by her bed (she was recently moved to a skilled nursing home from a hospital stay for a UTI).

What other tricks does this disease have in store for us?


Fri Jan 30, 2009 1:10 am
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Joined: Fri Jan 23, 2009 4:11 pm
Posts: 31
Location: N Calif
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I need to tell everyone about the very welcome & unexplained miracle that happened about 3 months ago !!! GW's constant nasal drip
stopped !!!!!
For 5 years we have battled it. Instead of Kleenex, we have been using Vanity Fair napkins, everyday size (Luncheon size)-available at Costco in bulk. These do not shred in his hands as they become soaked, or even in the wash when a pocket is overlooked. They are much softer than any of the other napkins. GW has had such a terrible time with runny nose--he has regularly filled 6 napkins at every breakfast, and has required a napkin in each hand at all times. Dr. had him try nasal sprays, at a variety of schedules. I've tried everything from changing my laundry products, & dryer sheets, as well as cleaning supplies,polishes, etc. and changed brands of Juices, & eliminated various foods. The problem persisted, he has been miserable with it. We even tried exercises - repeating words with "ng" sounds,and swallowing .
3 months ago. his Dr. changed his RX. He had been taking a controlled release form of sinemet ,3 times per day, for at least 5 years. Now The RX is a smaller dose of sinemet - 5 times per day, and one dose of the controlled release just before bedtime. Since this change, I have been waking him at 7:30 am to use the bathroom and take his 1st set of Parkinson's meds, then have him go back to bed and sleep for at least another 1\2 hour, before breakfast and any other vitamins and meds. His runny nose has suddenly dried up !!!!!! I don't know if it is, the change of the form of sinemet or the fact that he is getting his throat cleared of any mucus early in the morning by swallowing those first pills, but he has been getting through breakfast on only one napkin !!!
The other benefit we have noticed is, since I wake him so early without fail, he has not had a "Morning Meltdown". This is what I called the times when he would wake mad because his muscles hurt. He would ask me to call the police because he thought I was torturing him by waking him and having him move. This happened most often when I would let him sleep in till after 9. He is very happy to POTTY & PILLS, then back to bed.
I'm new to this forum but so glad I've found you !!! I'm so amazed at how similar the stories of symptoms and actions of your Lewys are to mine.
Di

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Di


Sun Feb 01, 2009 7:48 pm
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Joined: Fri Aug 11, 2006 1:46 pm
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Location: SF Bay Area (Northern CA)
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Di(anne W),
That "call the police - you've been torturing me" story is a HOOT!
Robin


Sun Feb 01, 2009 7:58 pm
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Joined: Fri Jan 23, 2009 4:11 pm
Posts: 31
Location: N Calif
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yes, funny now, but was really scary the first couple times it happened !!! There were 6or 8 times before I caught on that it might be connected to the wearing off of the sinemet. One morning we both slept in and when he woke up hurting, asked me to call the police, he got annoyed with me for not making the call, so he got out of bed went to the kitchen, saying he would do it. I heard crackling noises for about 5 minutes, before I went to check it out. When I asked what he was doing, He said "trying to dial the police on this darn phone!" What he held up was a cellophane package containing cookies. It was very hard not to laugh out loud at the sight of him standing at the counter wearing only his depends, trying to make a call to the police on his cookie phone.

I'm glad that I've figured out what was causing him to react like that ! Even now , however he will get a "charlie horse' cramp in his leg when he first wakes up. I will get that occasionally too, so I know that is miserable!!! So I will massage his legs as I wake him.
Di

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Di


Sun Feb 01, 2009 9:32 pm
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Joined: Wed Oct 08, 2008 10:30 pm
Posts: 976
Location: Henderson, Nv.
Post 
Runny nose is a symptom of LBD. My LO has a constant drip too. We keep a hankie in his pocket, Kleenex in all rooms of the house and I offer one to him every time I see the "faucet dripping." It must be so demeaning to a former "neatnik." Lewy is a sad disease.
Have not heard of any Magic Bullets for it.

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Dianne C.


Mon Feb 02, 2009 2:33 am
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Joined: Fri May 11, 2007 12:54 pm
Posts: 115
Post 
We went crazy with the runny nose also. I gave my mother-in-law napkins too. She didn't like using tissues because she said she had to use at least 3 or the fluid just soaked right through. We had napkins in every room, in her pockets, in my pockets, in the car, basically anywhere she was there was a napkin. She also shredded them but, not all the time. We tried different medications and nasal sprays and they didn't work. We never got rid of the runny nose or the drooling. The only time it stopped was when the psychosis ramped up again. When her delusions and hallucinations were bad the "faucet " stopped.

Joyce K


Mon Feb 02, 2009 9:46 am
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Joined: Sun Nov 22, 2009 1:05 am
Posts: 1
Post Re: runny nose
[quote="melinda"]Always learning something new here. Never knew the runny nose was one of Lewy's tricks. Here in Nashville, we just assumed nasal allergy.[/quote]

Yes, we did too. And as a Newbee I just found out yesterday when visiting the lbda homepage, that the nose knows.

Now that I look back on it, Mom has had that for at least a year--and always insists it is an allergy. And why not? Hay Fever runs in our family (how very weird that something seemingly so benign is actually a symptom of a very serious, dreadful disease!)

Today I told my brother what everyone has been saying on this subject said and we wondered about why the nose... now I can say why (and thx too, to Suzee, 24 Apr. 2007).

Deborah2


Tue Dec 15, 2009 4:14 pm
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Joined: Tue Dec 23, 2008 8:52 am
Posts: 154
Location: Michigan
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Tell me about the drippy nose. Is it a clear drip or worse?

Just curious. My hubby always seems to have a clear drip on the end of his nose too. One mens' white handkie a day seems all he needs at this time.

He does not take aricept or the exelon patch.

Karen


Tue Dec 15, 2009 10:51 pm
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Joined: Sat Oct 06, 2007 4:28 pm
Posts: 715
Location: LA
Post I remembered this
A clear drip for Mr B. Yes, at the tip of his nose. I had to watch during meal time or the peaches would have it mixed in with the peach juice dessert where it could go unnoticed. [You must stay alert, smile.] He was on Exelon patch but I remember the drippy nose before the patch was started.

DrP


Tue Dec 15, 2009 11:34 pm
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Joined: Sun Oct 21, 2007 4:18 pm
Posts: 835
Location: Acton, MA
Post 
Frank also has the drippy nose, clear, he has had it for a few years, several med changes throughout, and the drip never changed. He doesn't always realize it's there, I frequently tell him to wipe his nose. I'd take the drip any day over the drool, that drives me nutty.

Take Care,
Gerry


Wed Dec 16, 2009 8:11 am
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Joined: Tue Dec 23, 2008 8:52 am
Posts: 154
Location: Michigan
Post 
Thank you for your replies.

He asks me frequently why his nose drips, and I tell him is part of your illness. Many questions he asks me I have to answer that way.

Thanks for the tip on Verimist, MM, I will keep that in mind when the flood comes. He doesn't have a problem with night dripping or congestion - yet. I think having that mass/node removed from his vocal cord seems to have taken care of all the throat clearing he used to do.

Karen


Wed Dec 16, 2009 7:47 pm
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Joined: Wed Sep 30, 2009 8:25 am
Posts: 227
Post 
Just saw this post. My MIL has had this problem for years. We have tissues everywhere in the house. The only negative is that my golden retriever loves to shred them. He is in seventh heaven she moved in with us!


Sat Dec 19, 2009 5:54 pm
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Joined: Mon Mar 07, 2011 11:53 pm
Posts: 12
Location: San Diego, CA
Post Re: Runny nose
I am new to this board and have been reviewing many topics and saw this thread and have something to add that might help and assist with this runny nose thing. This post comes from the Alzheimer's Message Board and is a response from a doctor to a posters question on this runny nose thing as well as choking and throat clearing. I hope it helps and gives you all more info and something to ponder. Also there is a site out there called the Alzheimer's Library which is free to sign up on and has sooo many great articles of professional nature and the topics don't only encompass just Alzheimer's.

_______________________________________________


JAB
Posted December 21, 2008 09:30 AM December 21, 2008 11:30 AM Hide Post

I found a review article on adult sinusitis that sounded as if the authors knew what they were talking about, and emailed the senior author, Dr Richard Rosenfeld, SUNY Downstate Medical Center:

Dear Dr. Rosenfeld:

I just saw one of your papers on adult sinustis, and was hoping that you might be able to provide some advice.

I belong to the Alzheimer's Association discussion forum. Many of our members have reported that their loved ones suffering from Alzheimer's have significant trouble with post nasal drip. The problems are exacerbated by the patient's inability to understand what is going on or how to follow simple instructions for therapy; and many of them also have problems swallowing.

Drugs with anticholinergic activity are contraindicated for Alzheimer's patients.

Would you or your colleagues be able to provide any advice on what treatments might give relief to these patients (and their caregivers!)?

Thank you.


Within 24 hours (over the weekend before Christmas!), Dr. Rosenfeld answered that he felt a colleague might be better able to help, and forwarded my email; and Dr. Bradley Marple, University of Texas Southwestern, responded with this:

The discrepancy between the frequency of complaints involving postnasal drainage and the remarkably small amount of study (or outcomes data) dedicated to this complaint has astonished me from the very first day of my practice in rhinology. The fact is, this is something that I hear quite often and really have no good answer.

Postnasal Drip Syndrome has been a term used to describe this phenomenon, but has focused primarily upon the relationship between chronic cough and the complaint of postnasal drainage. There is quite a bit of controversy regarding this relationship and its proposed pathophysiologies. But, what this discussion fails to address is the primary complaint of postnasal drip.

I have included an article that may provide a little information. It is a review, but I think that its real value is in its final concluding statement. It points out that postnasal drip is a symptom rather than a disease.

With that in mind, addressing the factors that underlie this symptom is perhaps the best strategy.

First, this complaint (anecdotally) is more common amongst post-operative patients (ESS), patients with CRS, and the geriatric population. I would like to point out that there are a number of animal studies and human subject studies that demonstrate histologic changes in nasal mucosa secondary to exposures of a wide range of irritants (ozone, cement dust, chemicals, cigarette smoke, etc). Further, animal studies demonstrate a change in the olfactory receptors and Bowmans glands that are age related. It may be a stretch, but there may be an age or disease related change in populations of seromucinous glands (responsible for the less viscous component of mucus) as compared to goblet cells (responsible for the thicker, more tenacious component of mucus). In theory, the increase in viscosity of the resulting mucus is what is perceived by patients as postnasal drip (not an actual increase in volume).

While many of the factors that may contribute to these changes in the characteristics of mucus may be beyond the control of the treating physician, some factors may respond to various treatments. Further, understanding some of these thoughts may provide an opportunity to explain to the patient the current limits of treatment as it pertains to this complaint. Bottom line: some people won't get better!

What are the interventions that may provide some relief?

First, fix the nose. Assess for CRS, allergic rhinitis, non-allergic rhinitis, GERD, and environmental irritants. If these diseases are identified, then treat appropriately.

There are some interventions that are low risk and have shown some improvement for this and other non-specific nasal complaints. Topical nasal steroids serve in a non-disease specific way to decrease intranasal inflammation and therefore may be of some help. In a similar fashion the use of nasal saline irrigation has been demonstrated in meta-analyses to decrease a whole host of nasal symptoms in patients. Tim Smith and Todd Loehrl have shown that the use of a proton pump inhibitor, regardless of any objective diagnosis of GERD, leads to a statistically significant improvement in postnasal drip symptoms. Guaifenesin (mucinex) serves to stimulate seromucinous glands to secrete more of the lower viscosity component of mucous thereby easing its clearance and lessening the perception of postnasal drip.

One last point: I would recommend not using anti-cholinergics agents in the vast majority of patients with this complaint, as these agents serve to decrease the seromucinous component of mucus (rather than the mucinous component secreted by goblet cells) which theoretically would lead to a mucus that is of higher viscosity. In essence, anti-cholinergic have the opposite effect of guaifenesin and may result in an increase in the perception of postnasal drainage.

I hope that this is of some help.

Brad Marple


I will be going over the paper Dr. Marple sent, to see what else I can glean from it. In the meantime ... I hope both of these profs have a wonderful Christmas!

(Oh ... and while I was searching the literature, I tripped over the information that aricept can cause post nasal drip... so I assume all of the cholinesterase inhibitors can.)


Tue Mar 08, 2011 2:39 pm
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Joined: Wed Dec 30, 2009 1:46 pm
Posts: 3213
Location: WA
Post Re: Runny nose
Thank you. With my husband, drooling is the issue and some nasal discharge as well. I've also been wondering if the Exelon patch, which he has been using for four years is contributing to these problems because of its cholinergic action. I plan to ask his neuro later this month.

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Pat [68] married to Derek [84] for 38 years; husband dx PDD/LBD 2005, probably began 2002 or earlier; late stage and in a SNF as of January 2011. Hospitalized 11/2/2013 and discharged to home Hospice. Passed away at home on 11/9/2013.


Tue Mar 08, 2011 4:00 pm
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